Ratings

 [ViCiouS]TheAussieOne


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Join Date: 19 September 2010
Posts:5311
Posted 27 October 2011 - 1:29 am
@Heracles.

1. The system I offered still caters for your casual CBA gamer, which I feel is fair enough. However, if Voobly is to offer an ELO system which is a system intended to project an accurate player skill representation, then the system needs to be reviewed and fixed effectively to provide such services for CS. It works well enough in Rm, although a decay system would be most beneficial in my view.

2. I am quite confident in Rm, and I've played all maps regularly (Arabia, FR/MR/UR, LN, Michi. Water maps such as Migra and Islands) all at a 17++ level from a CS background. I really enjoy Rm, unfortunately I've never given it the time or dedication to push myself to a higher level. The principle behind migration is to control the mainland... where the resources are, while maintaining a balance on water.

3. The complexity in CS lies in mastering as many maps as possible while staying at a high level in them. 1 map is an easy achievement, as the settings are normally the same game in - game out. CS is popular due to it's ability to cater for terrible and casual players, to the experienced and quality players. The fact is though, the current ELO system has been butchered and abused by most, in turn the gaming experience has suffered and lame, slow and boring game-play has resulted (such as camping - even in CBA such as Maya Wars).

4. Don't bring in the satisfaction of other, real life materials. No one cares, and the internet isn't designed for people to brag about their real life ambitions and successes. That's what real life is designed for.
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 [Juga]BijeloDugme


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Join Date: 25 June 2007
Posts:4
Posted 27 October 2011 - 2:52 am
There are so meny fun maps out there and all the veteran players know that
(excpetonemappoint****s)
ppl will forgett rate eventually and start having fun again, noobs will play other maps beside cba and mcb classic.

But w/e do as u like

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 _HERACLES_


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 10 June 2010
Posts:4335
Posted 27 October 2011 - 3:31 am
@philmike hunt

well why on earth will an average player like me think about who is sitting at the top and why would it bother u as well????????
if u are against ratings.....u should least be bothered about who is sitting on their rates..let them do their own thing..

TH RATING system was not there in the first place to differentiate the good frm the worst or determine the best frm the worst.....it was there as a rewarding system where each and every rated game rewards the winner for their effort in game.

as for the 2nd point...well u played wid the 17++ guys......did u play wid the overrated 17++,the PT 17++ or the normal 17+guys...the reason why i m asking is not to question ur skill as an RM player but the USAGE of 17+ as a measure of skill.........u are contradicting urself and ur frnds who said RATINGS should not be comparable to skill....
FOR the 3 rd point...yes u are correct...partly i mean...people are free to play and do their own thing.......if one does not like particular they are urged not to play it.....cs has got different maps......one should try all of them......but depriving people who like to derive fun frm gaining points the correct way is injustice.

as for the 4 point ...well mate...had i ever mentioned about my ambition and success???i had mentioned about the game AOC...no one in the whole world has taken it up professionally...isnt it???
they all play to have fun,learn and enjoy bcoz it was the best ever medieval age strategy game......
and if i hadnt cared for wht happens in aoc and voobly and over the internet i would not have had spent my time writing over 1.2k posts on forums....so plz do not bring that "BRAG"thing here....coz its irrelevant wht i do in real life..


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 [ViCiouS]TheAussieOne


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Join Date: 19 September 2010
Posts:5311
Posted 27 October 2011 - 5:17 am
_HERACLES_ wrote:
@philmike hunt
well why on earth will an average player like me think about who is sitting at the top and why would it bother u as well????????
if u are against ratings.....u should least be bothered about who is sitting on their rates..let them do their own thing..

The competitive players would be interested, not the casual gamer...

I am not against the principle of ratings or the ELO system, I am against how the ratings are managed on Voobly. As I stated, they work quite well in RM.
_HERACLES_ wrote:
TH RATING system was not there in the first place to differentiate the good frm the worst or determine the best frm the worst.....it was there as a rewarding system where each and every rated game rewards the winner for their effort in game.

ELO system has always been used to differentiate skills between players.

Take a read of this, [You must login to view link]
_HERACLES_ wrote:
as for the 2nd point...well u played wid the 17++ guys......did u play wid the overrated 17++,the PT 17++ or the normal 17+guys...the reason why i m asking is not to question ur skill as an RM player but the USAGE of 17+ as a measure of skill.........u are contradicting urself and ur frnds who said RATINGS should not be comparable to skill....
FOR the 3 rd point...yes u are correct...partly i mean...people are free to play and do their own thing.......if one does not like particular they are urged not to play it.....cs has got different maps......one should try all of them......but depriving people who like to derive fun frm gaining points the correct way is injustice.

I've played 100s of Rm games with 17, 18, 19 and 2K+ players. The rating seems to be accurate 90% of the time. There will always be players who abuse the system.

I am not contradicting myself. ELO should be comparable to skill. The fact is on Voobly, players have abused the system to reflect an inaccurate rating skill equivalent.

My system wouldn't deprive anyone of achieving points. Tell me this. Why do you want points from a win?
_HERACLES_ wrote:
as for the 4 point ...well mate...had i ever mentioned about my ambition and success???i had mentioned about the game AOC...no one in the whole world has taken it up professionally...isnt it???
they all play to have fun,learn and enjoy bcoz it was the best ever medieval age strategy game......
and if i hadnt cared for wht happens in aoc and voobly and over the internet i would not have had spent my time writing over 1.2k posts on forums....so plz do not bring that "BRAG"thing here....coz its irrelevant wht i do in real life..

Sigh. English is obviously your second language. Ignore what I wrote, you simply don't understand it.
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 _HERACLES_


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Join Date: 10 June 2010
Posts:4335
Posted 27 October 2011 - 7:13 am
@mikehunt
Quote:
4. Don't bring in the satisfaction of other, real life materials. No one cares, and the internet isn't designed for people to brag about their real life ambitions and successes. That's what real life is designed for.
hehe.......where did i write something about my own ambition and success......this game is played for fun.....did i talk about satisfaction of real life materials in any of my posts??????u r making some stuff on ur own here....
Quote:
I've played 100s of Rm games with 17, 18, 19 and 2K+ players. The rating seems to be accurate 90% of the time. There will always be players who abuse the system.

I am not contradicting myself. ELO should be comparable to skill. The fact is on Voobly, players have abused the system to reflect an inaccurate rating skill equivalent.

My system wouldn't deprive anyone of achieving points. Tell me this. Why do you want points from a win?
there would always be someone who would abuse the system...as u said...then why experiment with the present system???if voobly still wants to experiment new system then they should do it wrt to the whole community not just the CBA players...

Why doesnt voobly organise something for the CS community to feed on???such as a CLAn type of tournament and cash prizes..................
the recent WCL tourney introiduced a new map MEGARANDOM..which is now so extensively played...
the CS community can also benefit frm such a tourney...........and many maps will then be known to many players...

The point is lots of improvemnt and upliftment can still yet be done.......we can still attract a lot of players on different clients if we organise tourneys..that has got cash prizes........
it is just a thought
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 [ViCiouS]Sneak_


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Join Date: 15 September 2008
Posts:1005
Posted 27 October 2011 - 8:07 am
This thread is taking a similar turn like the 100000's of other ones that get created, yawn.
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 [7th]RedRuM__


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Join Date: 11 January 2011
Posts:1709
Edited 27 October 2011 - 8:25 am by [7th]RedRuM__
1. Blood players don't need rating. We all know each other. We are the select few and playing the majority in bloods is useless anyway(they have no idea how to play bloods) We are the same as MINI CB players. Why kid ourselves with rating? Let it go for the greater good.

2. Alternative maps are useless for rating, because they are only being used to boost up overall rating. Alternative maps feed decadence.

3. Rating is needed for CBA to determine vs who you can play and who you can't.

4. Points need to be resetted once in a while. Every 6 or 8 or 12 months.

5. Without rating, CBA players will quit after getting a bad civ. This counts for all CBA types of maps. G4m3R4ng3r is evidence for this, no need to test it on Voobly.

Conclusion:

The only solution is to reset the ladders once in a while and rate only the CBA ladder, but include all CBA types of maps into the ladder.

OR

Use the old system: one rating for everybody, but just reset it every 6/8/12 months.
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 [ViCiouS]Sneak_


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Join Date: 15 September 2008
Posts:1005
Posted 27 October 2011 - 8:29 am
Inevitably its going to come down to a public vote, instead of just having it on forums send a message to players when they log in or something, I can guess thats its going to be a majority no vote to removing ratings, only a few players actually come on to the forum to voice there concern, usually the ones that want them removing.

So either you (mods) just need to go ahead and do something or I dont think anything will ever change as you can tell CBA players dont want it removed.
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 RIP_TridenT__


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 17 August 2011
Posts:1044
Posted 27 October 2011 - 8:46 am
1. Blood players don't need rating. We all know each other. We are the select few and playing the majority in bloods is useless anyway(they have no idea how to play bloods) We are the same as MINI CB players. Why kid ourselves with rating? Let it go for the greater good.

2. Alternative maps are useless for rating, because they are only being used to boost up overall rating. Alternative maps feed decadence.

3. Rating is needed for CBA to determine vs who you can play and who you can't.

4. Points need to be resetted once in a while. Every 6 or 8 or 12 months.

5. Without rating, CBA players will quit after getting a bad civ. This counts for all CBA types of maps. G4m3R4ng3r is evidence for this, no need to test it on Voobly.

Conclusion:

The only solution is to reset the ladders once in a while and rate only the CBA ladder, but include all CBA types of maps into the ladder.

OR

Use the old system: one rating for everybody, but just reset it every 6/8/12 months.

Very good post sir, I agree entirely.
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 _HERACLES_


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 10 June 2010
Posts:4335
Posted 27 October 2011 - 9:37 am
Quote:
1. Blood players don't need rating. We all know each other. We are the select few and playing the majority in bloods is useless anyway(they have no idea how to play bloods) We are the same as MINI CB players. Why kid ourselves with rating? Let it go for the greater good.

2. Alternative maps are useless for rating, because they are only being used to boost up overall rating. Alternative maps feed decadence.

3. Rating is needed for CBA to determine vs who you can play and who you can't.

4. Points need to be resetted once in a while. Every 6 or 8 or 12 months.

5. Without rating, CBA players will quit after getting a bad civ. This counts for all CBA types of maps. G4m3R4ng3r is evidence for this, no need to test it on Voobly.

Conclusion:

The only solution is to reset the ladders once in a while and rate only the CBA ladder, but include all CBA types of maps into the ladder.

OR

Use the old system: one rating for everybody, but just reset it every 6/8/12 months.
nice post i agree to all the points
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 [ViCiouS]H00dluM


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Join Date: 29 June 2007
Posts:898
Posted 27 October 2011 - 11:05 am
most of us arguing to get rid of ratings (my fellow clan members) barely even play the game anymore. Why care then guys!!!!
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 [ViCiouS]Sneak_


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Posts:1005
Posted 27 October 2011 - 11:18 am
most of us arguing to get rid of ratings (my fellow clan members) barely even play the game anymore. Why care then guys!!!!

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 [ViCiouS]Marauder


Group: Voobly Promoter
Join Date: 18 December 2009
Posts:3965
Posted 27 October 2011 - 12:43 pm
The idea of taking away ratings wasn't brought up to bring more variety to cs, or to keep the skill level accurate.... It was brought up because the number of complaints are still rising, and people are getting worse about losing their points. I don't see how resetting the ladder every few months would do anything but exasperate the problem
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 [I3acI]B


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Join Date: 22 August 2011
Posts:3085
Posted 27 October 2011 - 2:02 pm
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What has raven got to do with this??



I dunno. I care because I have good memories of this game and the current situation makes me feel despondent.
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 _LC_Mau5_RTK


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Posts:3627
Posted 27 October 2011 - 2:10 pm
I definitely agree with resetting ratings as much as possible.


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