RCB Gold 2013 v4

 Is_this_my_name


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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:46 am
another possible idea would be to make a separate map with gameplay changes like the slow global and also change up the heroes just for some variety and new gameplay. if the mods would allow both to be rated.
seems almost risky making any significant gameplay changes with only the one map, with all the complaints, and a lot of changes just ending up getting changed back.
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


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Posted 21 April 2013 - 1:19 am
another possible idea would be to make a separate map with gameplay changes like the slow global and also change up the heroes just for some variety and new gameplay. if the mods would allow both to be rated.
seems almost risky making any significant gameplay changes with only the one map, with all the complaints, and a lot of changes just ending up getting changed back.

Truthfully I don't want to do that. I just have to make sure the majority agree with things and cut out all non-essential things. That's one of the reasons I wanted those units at the 10 minute mark...seemed pointless that there were there since >95% of the time people got archers and even less did they get paladins/frankish/khan.
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 Alfz


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Posted 21 April 2013 - 7:09 am
In my opinion the necessary changes are essentially 2:

1. Replace theo with wallace keeping the same power ups and kings. Theo sucks vs martel and that shouldn't be possible since the unit costs 11 kings while martel costs 8. Theo is only good versus archers and is painfully slow. Wallace is a good replacement.
2.Replace back genitour at 3 kings top store.
3.The king-spread between harald and global is too little. 3 kings make people go global too often. Either Make global 20 or put back harald at 15.
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


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Edited 21 April 2013 - 8:20 am by _Ox_Weapon_xO_
Alfz wrote:
In my opinion the necessary changes are essentially 2:

1. Replace theo with wallace keeping the same power ups and kings. Theo sucks vs martel and that shouldn't be possible since the unit costs 11 kings while martel costs 8. Theo is only good versus archers and is painfully slow. Wallace is a good replacement.
2.Replace back genitour at 3 kings top store.
3.The king-spread between harald and global is too little. 3 kings make people go global too often. Either Make global 20 or put back harald at 15.

Genitour won't be added back regardless of everything else primarily because it's game breaking against brits. (see other thread)

Wallace wouldn't be bad. I think he may not group up as well compared to martel though I'll definitely add him and see how it plays out though. Even if theo is good against archers people just hit and run on him.

Yes, that king spread is low, I know it's an issue which is why I'm lowering the power-up timer for harald. Seriously though, with the stronger super store units, mid at 11 kings, and the potential for someone to have a frankish paladin too there really shouldn't be anyway someone should be global other than via incredibly mass feeding/people not paying attention. Granted, people not paying attention is an issue when someone is trying to kill the mid/harald person. I guess the easy way other than messing with those rates is just to make it 16 harald/global 20; thanks for helping me realize that.
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 RIP_Da_BeAsT


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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:00 am
if your put a cap on the units for power up would be fine ( keep small like +7 would be max) but I would keep it minimum so camping doesn't become a problem I really hate that u cant just put the +7 though it was very vital in longer games...... I love the idea of switching the Wallace with theos since u took the genis out doesn't make theos very effective vs camping martels
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 Alfz


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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:14 am
Also I would like to add my view on a couple of things:

1. The view of spies is too large. With only 2 kings you can see what hero the enemies have and the hp of their piramid. 2 Kings are really too FEW for that. Either make it 3 or 4 for such a good tool.
2. Haralds in top store are good as they are right now. with only 2.5 kings people win games with those. they don't need to be nerfed or buffed. 2.5 kings is less than charlemagne and much more powerful.
3. Schythian Scout: same as above. Good as it is. It is the new "skirm" people use, since the real skirm sucks and none buys it.
4. I would also add the option to buy missionaries in the top store for 2 kings.
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


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Edited 21 April 2013 - 10:32 am by _Ox_Weapon_xO_
Alfz wrote:
Also I would like to add my view on a couple of things:

1. The view of spies is too large. With only 2 kings you can see what hero the enemies have and the hp of their piramid. 2 Kings are really too FEW for that. Either make it 3 or 4 for such a good tool.
2. Haralds in top store are good as they are right now. with only 2.5 kings people win games with those. they don't need to be nerfed or buffed. 2.5 kings is less than charlemagne and much more powerful.
3. Schythian Scout: same as above. Good as it is. It is the new "skirm" people use, since the real skirm sucks and none buys it.
4. I would also add the option to buy missionaries in the top store for 2 kings.

1) I'll look at spies.

2) I'm only putting harald back to 20 secs. I'm not touching the super store harald although it'll have its power-up rate back to the normal 20 secs, which was in previous versions.

3) Yeah probably not touching Scout

4) Missionaries were in before and they made the invincible units pretty irrelevant since they could be converted so easily with them. So I'm definitely not adding them back in... plus I don't have anymore room without changing things significantly again and everyone complained about how big the stores were before so I really want to keep them this smaller size.
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:32 am
if your put a cap on the units for power up would be fine ( keep small like +7 would be max) but I would keep it minimum so camping doesn't become a problem I really hate that u cant just put the +7 though it was very vital in longer games...... I love the idea of switching the Wallace with theos since u took the genis out doesn't make theos very effective vs camping martels

I would do it if I could do it easily but I really can't based on the way I have the spawn triggers and I'm certain the way I have them is the best way to try to mitigate freezing. I'll probably just have the power-up stop after 30 minutes, then start after another 40, then stop after 30...cycling it like that will probably be the best way to do it. I can lessen the timeframe if you have an idea of what you think'd be best. I mean people will still need to be attacking during that time to be relevant long game so I don't think camping will become a huge issue.
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 RIP_Mackster


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Posted 21 April 2013 - 1:39 pm
Hmm i think, if we want a reemplace Theo it is cause him speed, William Wallace will not make biggets difference I think, If we want a better unit there, I think it should be that celt hero (similar to road raider) the point is that idk how it will work against will and beli, but that celt will be perfect to rape the hit and run cause it is faster infantery unit.
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


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Edited 21 April 2013 - 4:16 pm by _Ox_Weapon_xO_
Hmm i think, if we want a reemplace Theo it is cause him speed, William Wallace will not make biggets difference I think, If we want a better unit there, I think it should be that celt hero (similar to road raider) the point is that idk how it will work against will and beli, but that celt will be perfect to rape the hit and run cause it is faster infantery unit.

Just looked. Aethelfirth has no armor but yeah it is quick. Wallace is much better than theo though since theo barely kills jap martel while wallace doesn't even get to to half hp.

Also, one thing no one does, which I'm fairly certain it works (I believe I tested it before) is that if you research squires at the blacksmith it effects infantry so I could just have it research that at the same time you buy wallace but I feel like it'll be fine w/o that.
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 RIP_Mackster


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Posted 21 April 2013 - 6:38 pm
I remember we had Wallace in 10th, and it get killed for martels and subs easy with h/r (sometimes even without it), well I know it will get upgradable, but Ithink h/r with martels and range could kill it easy, bur lets try something so ... Isnt bad idea
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


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Edited 21 April 2013 - 8:11 pm by _Ox_Weapon_xO_
There's been an intermittent issue with the bottom store and people losing kings. Instead of messing with it I'm just going to redo the whole thing. Here's what it looks like atm: [You must login to view link]
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 ComBoT


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Posted 22 April 2013 - 2:38 am
If you are going to make a 1v1 version, I think the best idea will be to take out some heroes like beli, William and two..since those aren't used by 1v1 players...also to take out global..the same reason..
Make the map smaller....those changes will decrease the crash/freezing rate since that's the worse thing when you r playing a 1v1.. In fact I rather lose a game than have it froze..lol
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 ComBoT


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Edited 22 April 2013 - 2:50 am by ComBoT
With harald at 16 kings khan has become much more dominant. Something like this wouldn't be that bad.
I would do it if I could do it easily but I really can't based on the way I have the spawn triggers and I'm certain the way I have them is the best way to try to mitigate freezing. I'll probably just have the power-up stop after 30 minutes, then start after another 40, then stop after 30...cycling it like that will probably be the best way to do it. I can lessen the timeframe if you have an idea of what you think'd be best. I mean people will still need to be attacking during that time to be relevant long game so I don't think camping will become a huge issue.
This will for sure change the normal game play of this map...Do you really think that having +7 in 8.5 mins will make any difference vs khans??? Anyway people who'll take this will just use this for take food from other players instead to fight back khans...
The game is good as it is...if making 16 harald make khans too much powerful then reset it to 15, what's the big deal??15 was fine for years..
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 _Ox_Weapon_xO_


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Edited 22 April 2013 - 8:40 am by _Ox_Weapon_xO_
ComBoT wrote:
This will for sure change the normal game play of this map...Do you really think that having +7 in 8.5 mins will make any difference vs khans??? Anyway people who'll take this will just use this for take food from other players instead to fight back khans...
The game is good as it is...if making 16 harald make khans too much powerful then reset it to 15, what's the big deal??15 was fine for years..

15 was fine for years you're right but it's become more of an issue with the cheaper villager (i.e. strong civs dominate) I'll do what someone else suggested and leave it up to the players to control that instead of having it built into the scenario and there'll be a message when someone buys harald/khan


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